INTERVIEW WITH SHERMAN SKOLNICK -- MARCH 2, 1995
I spoke by phone with Sherman Skolnick of the Citizens' Committee to Clean-up the Courts [CCCC]. Here is my transcription of that interview.
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[Phone rings]
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Yeah?
CONSPIRACY NATION: Uh, Sherman Skolnick?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Yeah.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Hi. This is Brian Redman. I talked with you a few days ago?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Yeah, right.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. I got the Barings Bank thing went out on the Internet, O.K. I'm also wondering if you have, maybe, 5 minutes, I could ask you some questions?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: I'd be glad.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. What I've done...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: By the way, the message was highly detailed. I hope it didn't cause you any trouble to transcribe it.
CONSPIRACY NATION: No. As a matter of fact, I... I printed out the transcription and it's in the mail, O.K.? So you should be gettin' it... mmm, tomorrow or Saturday.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Thank you.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. Uh, I've been runnin' around a lot, you know, so, I...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Thank you for your efforts.
I have been talking to people all over [the] United States and elsewhere, gathering information on this. I... You know, I know a lot of people.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Um-hmm [understands].
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: What kind of questions do you have?
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. All right, well, number one, O.K. Let me just kind of throw something out at ya: I got this... You see, what I, the way I had been recording your recorded messages before was I had a micro-cassette recorder that I would place right up to the ear of the phone to record the message. And I, my idea was, I went to Radio Shack and they told me that there was this kind of a gizmo, O.K.?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Yeah, right. It costs about $21 and you plug it directly into the modular phone line and then into your machine, and it records directly from the line without any hum or problem.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. So that's what I did. In fact, I'm recordin' ya right now, if that's O.K.?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Yeah, fine.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. So that's...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: ...checking out. Better check out, check a little bit if you're using it for the first time.
CONSPIRACY NATION: You know what I did, I tested it on your recorded message, and it seemed to work O.K., so... And I just figured, well, I'll do like a 5 or 10 minute interview and if it turns out O.K. then I could just transcribe the interview and put it out on the Internet.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Yeah, certainly.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. I just wanted to, you know, make sure you understood that, you know, all that stuff.
O.K. A few questions that came up, all right, was with the Barings Bank, uh -- it's a relatively small bank. You know, like a billion dollar failure...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Well that's not accurate.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: The total estimated, or expected losses may well exceed over $10 billion. And to understand that, you have to consult with experts on derivatives.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Um-hmm [understands].
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: In unwinding a derivative trade that has gone bad, it depends on the instruments that are involved. Here what was involved is the price of yen and related matters. While they're unwinding these transactions, the yen... um, not the yen (excuse me), the Nikei Index may go down 2000 points. And if that occurs, as some in the securities industry expect (although they haven't been asked about it or quoted in the financial press), if that occurs, that the [Nikei] Index goes down 2000 points, then the loss of the derivative transactions that have gone sour will be very close to 10 billion dollars. Not one billion, and not 900 million, but $10 billion.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. 'Cause there...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: It depends on the unwinding of the trades. Because the derivatives transactions in question here were highly complicated and are tied in with the Nikei Index.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. Because there was some question. See, I get feedback, all right? This thing goes out to a lot of readers and I get some feedback from them. And it occurred to me that, now I had a chance to, you know, explore some of these issues more in-depth and kind of... 'Cause they had a lot of questions. I get a lot of...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: I've already talked off-the-record with highly-skilled people in this field.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And they have explained it to me.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Understand something: um, how can I explain this quickly? As a result of our efforts for over 30-some odd years in investigating judicial corruption, over the years we've found out that such corruption involves banks that are owned and operated by judges and others. As a result, we became, we have become very adept at financial research. And we have sources all over. And we have talked to those sources, and they estimate that the loss, when the Barings Bank transactions get unwound, would be close to $10 billion.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. Along the line of sources, I know that you can't reveal these people, but I'm thinking more in terms of, uh you had mentioned before that you read, for example, the *Wall Street Journal*. Are there other sources out there, as for reading, that you would recommend?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Well I would find it interesting, in the future, what the *Economist*, which now is trying to get a larger readership in the United States, that's a...
CONSPIRACY NATION: That's a London...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: ...that's a London publication [CN -- a magazine], what their next issue on this question may deal with. They may take a purely British point of view, or they may take a point of view sympathetic to the Queen's interest in Barings. Although the Queen, also, has a stock brokerage -- I believe they're called COATS(?) -- that handles, traditionally, a lot of the business of the British monarchy.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. So the *Wall Street Journal*, the *Economist*, there's...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Oh, you mean to get a clear idea of what's going on?
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah. Just some of the stuff you read.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: ...none of these publications, in my opinion, are gonna tell the unvarnished truth about what is involved. And I can give the reasons for that.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Because they all have their own special interests behind 'em? Or...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Well... Let me just list a few of the problems. One of the largest securities firms in the world, Nomura Securities, N-o-m-u-r-a, reportedly is, and has been, in worse financial condition than Barings. However, the Bank of Japan, and others, may bail them out. But some brokerages are quietly "red-flagging" them, which is a trade term for avoiding somebody. For example, when some brokerages became aware that there was a problem in Mexico, they "red-flagged" Mexico. That's the way they tell their troops, "No transactions with them" -- you see the point?
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Likewise, Goldman-Sachs has come within a hair, reportedly, of going under in respect to the "Mexican problem" -- the devaluation and the expected defaults by Mexican corporations.
So the financial press, to help the established interests, wish to play down the Barings thing as much as they possibly can as a, just another "minor matter". Which I don't believe it is.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. There's a newsletter called *Strategic Investment*, put out by Lord Rees-Mogg...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Right! I read it. I get copies. I don't subscribe, but friends of mine send me copies from time to time.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Same... Yeah. Same with me.
I uh... In their latest issue, they're talkin' about this thing about how Clinton's puttin' up what they call a "Berlin Wall" to keep dollars from fleeing the country. Have you heard anything about that?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Well what I know that's related to it is, the dollar is hitting, more and more, new, post-war lows. And the reason for that is that expert traders in the dollar are expecting the possibility that the *Deutschmark* will be the new, reserve currency of the world, rather than the U.S. dollar. And that is based on information that Clinton and his wife are "going to the wall" [i.e. will face some degree of justice] soon.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: In other words, well, there's been leaks from the investigation by the independent prosecutor which supports the idea that the First Lady is, in the near future, most likely gonna be indicted. And that will put a tremendous cloud over the Clinton White House. And so, in advance of that, the dollar is being dumped -- let's put it that way.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. I'm just basically, for myself, I'm watchin' the *Wall Street Journal* myself and just noticin' the dollar/yen thing, how that's...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Notice the split in the *Wall Street Journal*: those that work on the editorial page continue with their detailed items, which are more *news* items than editorials, about Whitewater. The other day they had a, um...
CONSPIRACY NATION: I saw it. Yeah.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: ...a front-page story that "pooh-poohed" Whitewater. The editorials are closer to the truth than the front-page story -- which is a different faction within the *Wall Street Journal*. (I know a lot about the back office politics of the *Wall Street Journal*.)
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. Yeah, like I say, this, I'm gonna have to keep this relatively brief. I mean, there's a *lot* of things...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Well then cut out those parts that you feel are not relevant.
CONSPIRACY NATION: No, it's *all* relevant, 'til now. I'm just sayin' that I have to kind of move along. You know, I'm lookin' for, at this point, maybe a 10, 15 minute interview. Because I plan on transcribin' the whole thing.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: All right, what subjects do you particularly want to get into?
CONSPIRACY NATION: There's just a few questions that people had, O.K.? And you've answered, so far, fine; I'm happy with the answers you've given me so far. And I'd like to get into more detail. You know, my idea is, maybe call you up once a week, ten, fifteen minutes, and just kinda, you know, "flesh out" things, and...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: My opinion is that the Barings Bank collapse is not an isolated event. It is part of an ongoing series of scandals which, of which the Whitewater scandal and the scandal, the series of scandals in Italy, and in France -- there's some overriding connection between them. In other words, different factions are coming out of joint and are fighting with each other, and this is what happens. And the financial press is *not* making any sense out of it; they're dealt with as if they're all isolated situations -- which they may not be.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. With this (movin' to a different subject), with this thing of the 41 grand jury witnesses in Chicago, that you're sayin' that the Justice Department has got an assassination team that has been killin' people...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Uh, yes. The ones that originally contended that were the highly skilled lawyers, including the former Attorney General, Elliott Richardson, that represented the Inslaw company. And in rebuttal to former judge Nicholas J. Bua's report on the grand jury investigation of whether Inslaw was defrauded by the Justice Department, Inslaw's attorneys filed certain detailed descriptions, offering witnesses, that there is within the Justice Department [an] unmarked section where there is a group there that conducts domestic and foreign assassinations, and that *they* were responsible for killing a key witness, a free-lance journalist, by the name of Danny Casolaro.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah, O.K. What, what some of my readers were interested in is possibly a list of the names of the victims. I mean, you don't have to read, you know, it out over the phone. I was thinking maybe I would contact you by mail, askin' for a list of the victims if you have...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: I think we have compiled a great number of names. In a federal court case that we brought, in the Fall of '92, on this question, we accused Bua and others who were supervising the Inslaw federal grand jury of not paying attention to the fact that *their* team of investigators were in fact terrorizing and murdering witnesses.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K....
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And we accuse, in the court record, a FBI agent named Mike "Chuckie" Peters of the same.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. A lot of this I've pretty much covered already through the, posted out on the Internet.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: All right.
CONSPIRACY NATION: And one other thing that people have kind of asked me questions about is this thing that Tsar Nicholas II and the Tsarina and their family were not actually killed in 1918.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Well there have been a couple of books on this subject. And I myself, in '74, with a group of my associates, went to New York to spend two whole days interviewing Alexei Romanov, who contends (and I believe he's correct) that he is the surviving son of Tsar Nicholas II, and that his family were *not* murdered, as history books state, in a basement in Siberia...
CONSPIRACY NATION: All right, so...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: ...but that they lived out their lives, protected by their cousins, the British royal family, and that they were housed, under another name, in Poland. And it's... well, you'd have to know a lot about history, you'd have to know a lot about this question, to understand the validity of what I'm saying.
Most of the royal families of Europe -- Russia, Germany, and England -- are cousins. They're related...
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: ...through Queen Victoria. And, so the uh... And, in 1970, in one edition only, the *Chicago Tribune* wrote a story about this, confirming from inside sources that the Tsar, his wife, and their children were rescued and were not murdered in Ekaterenberg(?), Siberia, as some had contended.
CONSPIRACY NATION: All right, so in the...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: I think that I have extra copies of that, and I will mail you one.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. What's... One reader...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And the *Tribune* has never recanted that story or corrected it. It's a correct story, from United Press International.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. One reader said that there's, there were actually movies of Tsar Nicholas and his family being shot by the Bolsheviks, from 1918.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Not true.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Not true. O.K. And another reader...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: What happened is that the Rockefellers, that held $400 million in gold of the *Romanov* -- not the Russian government, but of the *Romanov* private fortune -- have a great interest to circulate those false stories. Otherwise they might have to disgorge the money.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And they were the ones that financed the movie, in the early '70s, called "Nicholas and Alexandra". And at the close of the movie, it shows... uh, you know: the Tsar and his family being shot to death.
You mean there's an *actual* movie of it happening? It's not true.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. And you would...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: It's *not* true.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. You would say the same for supposed DNA evidence, that that's not true?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Oh, you mean that recent stuff that came out of the post-Soviet period there? I don't believe any of it.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And *you* wouldn't believe any of it either, if you had spent two entire days questioning and examining, you know, uh questioning Alexei Romanov. I mean, he's got the Tsarist family face, which cannot -- I mean, I brought artists along to look at that face! You can't reproduce that face. You can't fake-up that face.
Further than that, since he was a hemophiliac, as a child he wore braces. And we discussed some inside things about that, some of the things about wearing braces (which, of course, I'm a paraplegic myself) that he could not have known otherwise.
I mean, we tested him out on every possible aspect. And he didn't flunk a single question, no.
CONSPIRACY NATION: All right, and what about this Anastasia? I myself am not totally positive on this. It seems to me that... I mean, I know there was this controversy over this woman...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Well... the, what happened is, at the time that the Rockefellers sponsored the Nicholas and Alexandra movie, to promote, to further promote the idea that the Tsar had been murdered, the reason for it is, the German high court at that time (which is about 1971) had the case of a woman who used the name "Marian Anderson", but who claimed that she was the surviving daughter, Anastasia Romanov...
CONSPIRACY NATION: Um-hmm [understands].
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: ...the daughter of the Tsar. And she did not succeed in court, but that does not mean that she didn't necessarily have a valid case.
And then in the '50s, about 1957, um... what's her name? The famous actress... did a movie called "Anastasia".
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah, I know the... I've heard of the movie. And I can't recall the actress either. [CN -- Ingrid Bergman(?)]
O.K. That's...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: In other words, there's been various efforts to further circulate and promote these false stories that the Tsar, the Tsarina, and their children were murdered. It did *not* happen. Those that... And the story that ran in one edition of the *Tribune* in 1970 is a *correct* story. They have never taken it back. They have never corrected it.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. I just want to close with sayin' most of my readers are very interested in your material. And I'm real happy that you're givin' me a chance to kind of expand on, you know, these things that you're saying.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: The Tsarist thing requires a lot of details. I have only summarized a *very* *small* number of details.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah. Uh, we're makin' progress, O.K., is... What I'm sayin', is that, before, I would put out these 5-minute commentaries that sometimes would raise further questions and, that I couldn't...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And the other thing that's in my 5-minute message, which there's gotta be a lot more details discussed, that you can't do it in 5 minutes -- and that is the secret pact between...
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah!
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: ...the Pope and the Western powers, which expired in '93. And there's a lot to be said about that.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. And I'm just sayin', see what I have to do is I've gotta transcribe this. And this should keep me busy for a few days, anyway, gettin' this stuff out.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: If this stuff isn't clear, call me and if I'm here I certainly will try to... I tried to summarize this quickly, but you know, we're "documentors", you know what I mean?
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And I tend to immediately supply highly detailed answers that... well, would take...
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: ...It would lengthen the thing out.
Let's just say, I don't make idle statements. Let's put it that way.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. And the documents, I told ya that, you know, I had made copies of some of your commentaries and transcribed 'em. I sent those out in the mail to ya. Like I said, you should be gettin' 'em Friday or Saturday.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: What is happening? In other words, some of the others on Internet are getting back to you with interesting questions, huh?
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah! Yeah. And actually, I've *routinely* gotten these questions, and I've been in a position of not really *knowing*, you know? Sometimes I have *some* knowledge, myself, that I can...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Understand what our problem is: I operate without a secretary. And my associates are scattered all over. So we don't have a "secretarial staff" to speak of. And I have a listed phone number and address, and were I to get a lot of mail to my address, I don't think I could, you know, answer it. In other words, if questions came to me, how would I answer all these letters? Do you see what I mean?
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah, sure.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: So if they come to you, I'll... You ask your questions and I'll do my best to answer 'em.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. And when I get done with this, transcribin' this interview and sendin' it out, I'll send ya a copy. Just so you know that I'm representing you *verbatim* and I'm not...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Right. And we welcome more questions about the Barings Bank. We are in touch with the most knowledgeable people on various continents about it. We've... We know a great deal about it. So we will have further messages, and I'll be glad to share the information with you.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. Thanks a lot for your time.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Thank you.
CONSPIRACY NATION: O.K. 'Bye.